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  Anonimowy
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  <span class="text-sm text-gray-500"><time datetime="2008-10-12T15:31:02Z" title="2008-10-12" data-controller="timeago">2008-10-12</time></span>
    
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  <p>Spoiler :/ – Nie rozumiem zachwytu nad tym filmem. Opowiedziana historia jest po prostu kiepsko wyreżyserowana, ukazana, to co się dzieje na ekranie w zupełności nie porywa, nie ma w tym filmie ukazanych żadnych archetypów ludzkich zachowań, przede wszystkim za dużo długich ujęć, którym nie pomaga muzyka Beethovena, gra aktorska sztuczna, ludzie poza szkołą jakoś tak obojętnie się zachowywali i rozmawiali ze stoickim spokojem o tym co się dzieje w szkole, chodzi mi o syna z ojcem, zachowują się tak jakby nic ich nie ruszało, a inni wybiegający ze szkoły lub biegający po szkole jakby sobie uprawiali jogging. Najlepszy jest niejaki Beny (taki Murzyn w żółtej koszulce), który słysząc strzały, widząc joggingujących ludzi… on spokojnym krokiem porusza się po korytarzach świadomie zmierzając w kierunku huków strzałów, tylko po to aby zostać zastrzelonym… buhaha W porównaniu z Estońską "Naszą klasą" <a href="http://fdb.pl/f102548">http://fdb.pl/f102548</a> , "Słoń" nawet na ocenę nie zasługuje. Krótko mówiąc kiepska realizacja, kiepska gra aktorów… beznadziejna całość.</p>
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      <strong>Zobacz wszystkie 5 odpowiedzi</strong>
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      <strong>Ukryj odpowiedzi</strong>
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    Anonimowy
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  <span class="text-sm text-gray-500"><time datetime="2008-10-12T18:22:52Z" title="2008-10-12" data-controller="timeago">2008-10-12</time></span>
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  <p>No ja dałam mu 8/10, ale jak przeczytałam Twój post to zaczynam się zastanawiać czy przypadkiem moja ocena nie jest za wysoka:)</p>
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  <p>No, powiedzmy, że się zgadzam z centralnym- wszystko co napisał jest prawdą, film jednak nie jest moim zdaniem jakimś specjalnym gniotem. Po prostu słaby.</p>
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  <p>&gt; centralny o 2008-10-12 15:31 napisał:</p>
<p>&gt; nie ma w tym filmie ukazanych żadnych archetypów ludzkich zachowań,</p>
<p>nie rozumiem tego sformowania. o co Ci chodzi? skąd takie oczekiwania?</p>
<p>&gt; przede wszystkim za dużo długich ujęć, którym nie pomaga muzyka Beethovena</p>
<p>dla mnie akurat długie ujęcia były wartością samą w sobie i takim znaczkiem firmowym van santa, który historie filmuje niemal jak dokument, obserwując krok-po-kroku upatrzonego bohatera.<br>
dzięki temu cała, skądinąd dramatyczna historia masakry (doprawiona muzyką klasyczną), nabrała pewnej poetyckości i szlachetności. nuda była tu raczej tylko efektem ubocznym, a dużo bardziej chodziło o wyciszenie, spowolnienie tempa, większe skupienie się widza na tym "kogo" widzi, a nie "co" widzi i jego stopniowe "wejście" w taką sytuację.</p>
<p>&gt; aktorska sztuczna, ludzie poza szkołą jakoś tak obojętnie się zachowywali i<br>
&gt; rozmawiali ze stoickim spokojem o tym co się dzieje w szkole, chodzi mi o syna z<br>
&gt; ojcem, zachowują się tak jakby nic ich nie ruszało, a inni wybiegający ze szkoły<br>
&gt; lub biegający po szkole jakby sobie uprawiali jogging.</p>
<p>na szczęście nie mam doświadczeń z kolegami wparowującymi z karabinem do szkoły, ale <br>
intuicja mi podpowiada, że trudno oczekiwać jednej konkretnej reakcji, tak jakby to była ewakuacja w razie pożaru. nie zapomnijmy, że prawdziwa masakra w Columbine, była jedną z pierwszych w USA, czyli wtedy gdy nie było jeszcze psychozy strachu, nie było wykrywaczy metali w szkole, nie było instrukcji ucieczki etc… dlatego spektrum zachowań mogło być naprawdę szerokie – od tych racjonalnych, histerycznych, po lekceważące i ofensywne. oprawcami byli przecież rówieśnicy, nie żadni zamaskowani mordercy, więc instynkt samozachowawczy mógł niejednokrotnie zawieść. van sant według mnie podszedł więc do sprawy uczciwie – sportretował możliwie występujące reakcje.</p>
<p>&gt;Najlepszy jest niejaki<br>
&gt; Beny (taki Murzyn w żółtej koszulce), który słysząc strzały, widząc<br>
&gt; joggingujących ludzi… on spokojnym krokiem porusza się po korytarzach<br>
&gt; świadomie zmierzając w kierunku huków strzałów, tylko po to aby zostać<br>
&gt; zastrzelonym… buhaha</p>
<p>już chyba bardziej tego spłaszczyć nie mogłeś. no cóż.. taki już masz jak obserwuję powierzchowny styl pisania.</p>
<p>&gt;W porównaniu z Estońską "Naszą klasą", "Słoń" nawet na<br>
&gt; ocenę nie zasługuje.</p>
<p>nie uważasz, że to trochę głupie porównywać film sprzed 5 lat z filmem z ubiegłego roku, czyniąc z tego zarzut?</p>
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  <span class="text-sm text-gray-500"><time datetime="2008-10-13T14:56:43Z" title="2008-10-13" data-controller="timeago">2008-10-13</time></span>
    
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  <p>&gt; kuba wajda o 2008-10-13 00:51 napisał:  <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; nie rozumiem tego sformowania. o co Ci chodzi? skąd takie oczekiwania?</p>
<p>chodzi mi o wzorzec myślenia, postrzegania, przeżywania i działania w pewnych typowych sytuacjach.</p>
<p>&gt; dla mnie akurat długie ujęcia były wartością samą w sobie i takim znaczkiem<br>
&gt; firmowym van santa, który historie filmuje niemal jak dokument, obserwując<br>
&gt; krok-po-kroku upatrzonego bohatera.<br>
&gt; dzięki temu cała, skądinąd dramatyczna historia masakry (doprawiona muzyką<br>
&gt; klasyczną), nabrała pewnej poetyckości i szlachetności. nuda była tu raczej<br>
&gt; tylko efektem ubocznym, a dużo bardziej chodziło o wyciszenie, spowolnienie<br>
&gt; tempa, większe skupienie się widza na tym "kogo" widzi, a nie "co" widzi i jego<br>
&gt; stopniowe "wejście" w taką sytuację.</p>
<p>Kolesie grający w futbol… i przy tym muzyka klasyczna, gdzie tu poetyckość?? Dla mnie te sceny nie miały żadnej wartości, jeśli chodzi zaś o skupienie widza na postaci to zrealizowano to kiepsko, bo jakoś szczególnie nie zawiesiłem oka na ukazanych osobowościach. Wiesz wyciszenie to raczej może być po burzy, lub spędzeniu ciężkiego, szaleńczego dnia.</p>
<p>&gt; na szczęście nie mam doświadczeń z kolegami wparowującymi z karabinem do szkoły,<br>
&gt; ale<br>
&gt; intuicja mi podpowiada, że trudno oczekiwać jednej konkretnej reakcji, tak jakby<br>
&gt; to była ewakuacja w razie pożaru. nie zapomnijmy, że prawdziwa masakra w<br>
&gt; Columbine, była jedną z pierwszych w USA, czyli wtedy gdy nie było jeszcze<br>
&gt; psychozy strachu, nie było wykrywaczy metali w szkole, nie było instrukcji<br>
&gt; ucieczki etc… dlatego spektrum zachowań mogło być naprawdę szerokie – od tych<br>
&gt; racjonalnych, histerycznych, po lekceważące i ofensywne. oprawcami byli przecież<br>
&gt; rówieśnicy, nie żadni zamaskowani mordercy, więc instynkt samozachowawczy mógł<br>
&gt; niejednokrotnie zawieść. van sant według mnie podszedł więc do sprawy uczciwie -<br>
&gt; sportretował możliwie występujące reakcje.</p>
<p>Tak?? Czyli twoim zdaniem to było naturalne zachowanie tak?? Bez żadnego ładunku emocjonalnego, instynktu zachowawczego, krzyku, histerii… To chyba rzeczywiście społeczność amerykańska jest tak głupia jak mówią a ty się z nimi identyfikujesz. Co jak co, ale jak bym zauważył dwóch kolesi obładowanych torbami w których definitywnie widać coś na kształt giwer i jeszcze ubrani jak Arni w filmie "Comando" aha i dosłownie mi mówiąc, jak to uczynił jeden z nich żeby lepiej <b>*</b> bo będzie sieczka, to człowieku na pewno zareagował bym stanowczym tonem, krzykiem ostrzegał ludzi, prosił kogoś o pomoc aby wezwał policję lub sam bym zadzwonił, a ten oto człowieczek co prawda coś tam mówił , ale jak dla mnie było to zwykłe mruczenie pod nosem i obojętne zachowanie.</p>
<p>&gt; już chyba bardziej tego spłaszczyć nie mogłeś. no cóż.. taki już masz jak<br>
&gt; obserwuję powierzchowny styl pisania.</p>
<p>no inaczej nie mogłem, bo tak zachowuje się tylko jakiś niedorozwinięty umysłowo… czyli jednym słowem półgłówek. Zresztą wszyscy się zachowywali jak niedorozwoje.</p>
<p>&gt; nie uważasz, że to trochę głupie porównywać film sprzed 5 lat z filmem z<br>
&gt; ubiegłego roku, czyniąc z tego zarzut?</p>
<p>nie nie uważam, wiesz gdybym miał porównywać film sprzed 15 i więcej lat z filmem ubiegłorocznym to bym się zastanawiał, różnica czasu jest tu bardzo mała.</p>
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  <span class="text-sm text-gray-500"><time datetime="2008-10-13T18:43:20Z" title="2008-10-13" data-controller="timeago">2008-10-13</time></span>
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    9
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  <p>obraża mnie Twój styl pisania, więc szkoda dalej dyskutować. płaski jesteś i tyle.</p>
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